Thanks for the hatemails, you pricks!
How is that even possible. I mean, you can tell me I've bushy eyebrows or my hair is out of control because those things are physically visible. But how can you tell me things that only I can decide?
Yes. Apparently, we human have the ability to decide what to think of ourselves . Nothing in our brain is set in stone. When Aqmal pointed out that
"Studies have proven that for most people, their sexual orientation is predetermined even before birth, while the child is being concieved."
I would like to point out that during the Greek and Roman empire, homosexuality can either be considered pederastic or a sophisticated form of youth loving. During those time, homosexual acts with boys are considered nobel and a delicacy reserved for great men. When Christianity flourished within Rome, homosexuality was considered a great sin and rules such as burning at the stake was introduced by Emperor Theodosius.
Perceptions, studies and even research on homosexuality evolves throughout the centuries and I don't think it will ever stop. More and more studies on homosexuality will be conducted and still, would you still believe that sexual orientation is determined even before birth when a sequent of valid scientific reasons are uncovered? Last year, a UPM academician discovered that consumption of a certain fish contaminated by chemical pollutants attributes to men's inclination to homosexuality. Will you dismiss this study and stick to the older study that you personally believe even though the research was conducted without cultural bias?
I think it is pathetic to tell me that I'm a confused gay teenager who is in denial. Sure, you are entitled to your opinion. In my opinion, you will believe in anything that rationalizes your homosexual behaviour. I also think you have underestimated the power of human mind-conditioning. Do you think that suicide bombers are born with a cavalier attitude towards death? Do you think that sexual offenders' inclination towards commiting sexual crimes is predetermined even before birth? How is homosexuality any different?
You might argue that homosexuality is not crime and therefore should not be compared with heinous crimes I mentioned. Fine. Do you think honesty is a god-given trait? Or kindness? Is is predetermined even before birth?
You have conditioned yourself to believe that your inclination towards men is natural and you have decided to embrace your inclination. So be it. I've no problem with that but telling me how I'm in the closet? Gay sex might be fine and dandy to you but to me, it's a serious offence. How would you feel if I tell you that you're inclined to commiting incest? You'll probably jump at the idea of having sex with your own sibling but have you actually commited it? If you haven't, how can I rightly accuse you with such accusation? (and mind you, incest in several some countries is a cultural norm)
With this idea in mind, don't you think accusing me of being gay is a blatant Fitnah?
I'm glad globalization caught up on you. I like the idea of Seksualiti Merdeka. It gives me more freedom to express my views on homosexuality and put a cork in homosexuality as perceived in the light of western liberalism. We have our own way of thinking and culture. We should decide on how homosexuality should be addressed in our country.
For me, I'm a muslim and I abide by Islamic laws and jurisdictions. I cover my aurah, perform my prayers and will stay away from homosexual activities.
I respect your decision to engage in male anal sex so you have to respect my decision to stay away from it. Amen.
42 comments:
For every study that claims one thing, you can find equal numbers of studies that claim the opposite or even more.
Predisposition is one thing, a Syariah crime is quite another. If one thinks one is gay, probably one needs lotsa cold showers, not to engage in Anus Horribilis... :-)
no matter how many studies/thesis/ research were done
as a muslim, we should believe what is written in the holy Quran: Islam forbids Homosexuality ":)
I've read the comments thread of your 'merdeka' post and this one.... its surprises me still how so many people are so sensitive at these issues till today. and with each post/comments it seems like an opportunity to showcase sophisticated complex vocabulary skills that made me laugh almost. I have to bring dictionary next time... ;-)..
anyhow, it's a complicated world we live in my frens. i feel that almost all religion and general human morale does not encourage homosexual acts. And if a homosexual comes up to you and say...'can you make be not homosexual please?'.... do you have a practical answer?...if yes, then please spread it ya, As i see there's alot of accusations, provocations, critical opinions... but not so much answers, solution and conclusions.
Until then, i feel that we can go on and on on the topic... but i believe the very least we can do as educated-open minded people is to give everyone a fair chance to live in this small world of ours without discrimination, criticism and be treated just like any other person with equal rights. that's my 2cents lah...The End...okies gotta go back to work.... cya.
i have to disagree with you.
quote: "Apparently, we human have the ability to decide what to think of ourselves "
i dont think we have that ability (coz then A LOT of questions would've been solved). apparently, instead, we humans have the ability to decide what to think of others. as if its any of their own businessess.
i think i just proved my own point, through me o.O
Anus Horribilis! Sounds like a very gay version of Sambal Ikan Bilis!
Danny, saya setuju 100%
-one-, I know what you mean. Some attempts of self justifications are laughable.
You're entitled to your opinion Sharman but in actual fact, your choice to disagree is already a result of our ability to decide what to think of ourselves. Only when there is a reference of ourselves will they be cross references of others.
And how does this reference come about then? By agreeing and disagreeing a set of thoughts of ourselves expressed by other people or ourselves. This ability; the ability to decide what we think of ourselves made us the only species in this world that can make our own culture, lifestyles etc and evolve intellectually. It is also the same ability to enable us to make significant changes amidst repression, regression and depression.
also the same ability that's causing so much trouble eh? aaaa everything has its other side...
First of all, if I said anything in the comments section to imply that you're "a confused gay teenager who is in denial", I'm sorry. That was not my intention. I was addressing the issue to a third party, not targeted at you. Perhaps it was my use of the word 'you' in the last paragraph that misdirected you. My bad. I was using 'you' to adrress the third party which would be your readers.
Secondly, I realize that studies, scientific research, consensus and surveys presented by both sides would prove to be stalemate. "For every study that claims one thing, you can find equal numbers of studies that claim the opposite or even more". That's fair.
Yes, I believe that sexual orientation is determined before birth but that statement is inaccurate. You can ask gay men everywhere and responses will differ from one another. Some might say that they've been gay since childhood, others say it was developed during later phases in their life. So is it nature or nurture? You'll never get a definite answer. It was inaccurate of me to say that, but it is also inaccurate of you to say that homosexuality is due to human
conditioning. There is always a gray area.
Since we're doing comparisons, comparing homosexuality to sexual offences (in Malaysia) and suicide bombings is completely asymmetrical and misleading. But I will level with you. If you would like to compare, let's compare homosexuality with (at the risk of offending my community) physical deformities or neurological disorders. I'm not trying to incite pity so please don't. Say a child is born with a shrivelled arm or with cerebral palsy. You would agree that it was God's decision to shrivel that child's arm or to give the child cerebral palsy. That we as humans have no power over it. What about piercings? God doesn't decide if we self-mutilate, we do as individuals. Or brain damage? We can decidedly knock our heads until we get concussions which may result in neurological disorders. We choose not to do this of course but we are capable of doing it. Same goes for homosexuality. For some its innate, for others it is developed. Likewise, you can't compare it with honesty or kindness either. Those are deeds, you can choose when to be kind and honest and when not to like an on/off switch. Homosexuality is more like a habit in this case. You are either born with it or it is developed like most habits are.
I am a homosexual and yes, i've known it even as a child. Though i didn't know what homosexuality was at the time but i do know that i found men or male figures to be more appealing than women.
This discovery was made when i was just 4 or 5 years old. How is a mere child with no knowledge of good or evil, or even without the power of speech and self-restriction skills condition themselves to be more inclined towards men? They cannot. It's not because they will not, they just can't. It's as natural to them as someone having brown eyes and black
hair or even a shrivelled arm. You can submit that maybe I grew up
in a fucked up family or some shitty environment that made me gay. I can tell you otherwise.
I grew in a relatively normal family with a sibling 3 years apart who is straight. My parents raised me with a good balance of liberalisme and discipline. I khatam Al-Quran when I was 15 and got an A2 for my Pendidikan Islam subject in SPM. So you can't say that I wasn't raised to fear God or
lacked Islamic fundamentals. I'm also one of those people who are simply born gay and there are many others like me.
Can you tell someone with brown eyes not to have brown eyes? Can you tell someone with black hair
not to have black hair? Can you tell a handicapable person not to have a useless limb? Can you tell a mentally-challenged person not to be so? Can you tell someone not to be gay? Can you tell them to do all those and expect them to go against their nature? I don't think so.
You can't change a tiger's stripe. There are gay people who are closeted or in denial, believing that through human-conditioning, they may switch to being
heterosexuals. Some are successful and if this is your case, then good for you, you deserve to be in God's ever loving bosom. For others it cannot be changed. Try as they might but there will always be a reservation somewhere in the back of their psyche telling them that
they're gay. They can "fall in love" with a girl, stage a marriage and with the help of imagination
forcefully reach an orgasm during intercourse with their wives, have kids and live the rest of their lives believing that what they're doing is natural but it is they who are going against the nature of their being. The being that God made them into. That itself is a sin.
The Quran does contain many instructions to help you live a wholesome life, to cleanse your
soul, to guarantee your place in akhirat. It says many things, some not very clearly and you may even find some contradictions in its contents. It even states that you should not commit sodomy for it is unnatural and detrimental. Fine. But in nowhere does it state "thou
shalt not give birth to a homosexual" or "thou shalt not give birth to a child with brown
eyes or black hair or with physical deformaties." In nowhere does it state "thou shalt not love thy fellow man". If anything, it says quite the opposite. Fine, no anal sex, I can live with that and most people can too. A man-man relationship doesn't necessarily mean that one must have anal sex
with their partner. I'm not saying that your interpretation is wrong, but maybe the Quran is not a set
of strict rules but rather a guide to help each of us develope a more personal relationship with Allah S.W.T. Does He not, afterall, love all his human creations?
Yeah, ok, i've caught up with globalization as well as others like me and perhaps we are more fond of western liberalism and its perception of homosexuality. If not for globalization, you would not have the freedom to express yourself as you do in your blog. And I'm sorry to say but your efforts to "put a cork in homosexuality as perceived in western in the light of western liberalism." will only be futile. You can do no more than if you were to "put a cork" in women giving
birth to brown-eyed babies, babies with Down syndrome, handicapable babies or gay babies.
I'm not trying to convince you into anything nor am I trying to get you to join the "dark" side. The whole point of this mess of a response is to point out your inaccuracy in the matter. To each his own. You can go on being as you are and i have no interest in changing that. But your posts on the issue suggests that your perception of said issue is narrow and one dimensional, in black and white. What you need to know is that there is always a gray area and i'm suggesting that you widen your scope to get a better understanding of the issue. You can accuse me of heresy if you want to, you can flame me as much as you want but i believe what I believe and if I did not respond to your post, it would be a crime against myself, my community and my beliefs.
I'd like to apologize to any gay person reading this. If you are offended at my use of the comparison between a gay person and a handicapable person or a mentally-challenged person, i'm sorry. The point was to stress the fact that one cannot change the nature of another even if it does not comply to the standards of social acceptability in some communities.
To wrap it all up, here's a link to a 60 Minutes special posted on Yahoo!News on children and homosexuality. Educate yourselves. It's not really 60 minutes.
http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/68/gay_or_straight?com
ment_offset=1001
I'm not responding to your comment with my entry by the way. It's for the 72 hatemails I received last week. I only quoted one sentence from your comment.
I've been liking men since I was 7 years old and it has been a struggle to steer myself to the right direction. It's an inclination that I'm not willing to give in to.
I'm proud to say today that I got past a huge obstacle. It always have been a struggle. It's my Jihad. It's my struggle.
So justifying your action is a huge insult to me. I don't appreciate your rationalization because not only it shows your faith in Islam is futile, you are also treating your test like it's a gift.
In a way, it is. It means God loves you. He gives you tests so you can learn from them. But when you indulge in them, you will live your whole life justifying your choice of lifestyle in your conscience.
Hey you know what, you don't have to listen to a silly 21 year old guy? I mean, I'm too young to know more than you, no?
But today, I learnt from a 10 year old boy at a pasar malam how to keep a polystyrene container with a broken lid close without the help of a rubber band.
I'm rather interested on the research about fish toxins making me gay, actually. I'd like to find that one for satirical printing on the next Seksualiti Merdeka.
I think what you're doing is basically what most Muslims do, Afiq, which is to heed the rules put unto us by our way of life, and there's nothing wrong with that.
However, there are perhaps a group of Muslims who don't heed all the rules including the one on homosexuality, myself included.
Don't get me wrong. I still pray, and fast, and honor my parents, and give charity to the orphans and all that, but at the same time I do drink alcohol, and I am gay.
And the thing is, I don't wait till I've married a woman and then go out at night looking for guys to suck my...never mind.
I'm digressing.
There is nothing wrong for adhering to your beliefs, being it whether you think homosexual acts are wrong, as per the teachings of Islam, and that homosexuality is natural, which Islam has nothing against.
However, all religions speak of compassion, and Al-Hujarat warns us to mind our own business.
At-Tarmizi goes as far as saying that people who conduct gay sex should be killed. Luckily though, we only abide by Hadith Bukhari and Muslim.
The only thing stopping a Muslim, or anyone in this country from having gay sex is Act 377 of the Penal code, which is a law on unnatural sex, which states that anal sex is wrong. Even if you're a straight couple, you can still be charged under this law.
All in all, the act itself comes back to what you believe in. If you are gay and believe that it is a struggle to withstand such urges, then I'll pray for you nonetheless that you are successful in your struggle. However, if you're gay and want to actually live life as a gay individual, recognized as such, I'll pray that you keep condoms around often and practice safe sex.
=)
And Aqmal, I don't think saying the Quran is "not a set of strict rules" is any help at all, seeing as how it is the Holy Book that will last till the end of days.
Some may find that insinuation rather insulting, dear.
Yaa Ikhwanul Muslimin,
No matter how many “hujjah/dalil aqli” or “Quranic verses/ dalil naqli” being used to defend someone’ act or behavior for being gay or act gayish, bottom line is it is still forbidden by Allah The Almighty and it clearly stated it is forbidden in Islam.
To be gay is an instinct/feeling and there’s no such thing as gay chromosomes in human DNA.
I believe that’s why God gives us mind and brain to think and choose: using our mind to overcome instinct
May Allah forgives all of us ":)
What is forbidden in Islam? Being gay is not forbidden. Just mean you have a preference to like guys. Having sex with guys, however, is forbidden.
Thus Afiq mentions that countering such thoughts is his jihad.
God watch over him on that struggle.
God gave us a mind, but He also notes that humans can be tempted.
When temptation is too great, that is when we note how God himself is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Something that is repeatedly mentioned in the Quran.
Though I will agree with your last line, Danny.
afiq... cakaplah-" 'nuff said"
PS I have a Copy of PROCLAMATION OF MALAYSIA (16 September 1963) on my blog. everybody is welcome to read. I know not many have...
Ugh, did nothing from my overly complicated comment get to you? You've totally missed the whole
point. The point I was trying to make was that for some people (such as myself)sexual orientation cannot be turned from one way to another like an on/off switch. It is something innate and unchangeable. Something they're born with and there's nothing ranging from psychological
therapy and extreme human-conditioning to ferverous prayers and good deeds will ever change that.
You share the same dilemma but you chose to see it as God's challenge and believed that you can overcome it. That's great and i'm sure there are many others like you, with their own success stories none the less. It works for you because you saw it as something changeable, something that can conveniently fit into the standards of the Quran. But for some of us, it is the opposite. We can't change it, as much as some of us want to turn straight, we simply can't. Not "won't", just "can't".
You can say "Repent, worship, pray, insaflah so that God may turn you straight.", but you know what, even that won't work. I am confident I will be gay even after a lifetime's worth of prayers and penance. I can get married to a woman and maybe that will change me, right? No, therein lies another obstacle. How can i get a hard on and impregnate my wife if i can't get a hard on because she's a girl. Am i supposed to imagine that its a dude? Isn't that technically being gay? In this scenario, i have sinned to the poor girl for misleading her in a staged marriage, sinned to myself for denying my nature and sinned to God for not being able to fulfill my duties as a husband, for lying to Him and for my inability to reproduce.
You were right about one part. There was a challenge that Allah had given me. Took sometime to understand what it was but it finally got through. Yeah, i went through a phase such as yours. I was afraid because I was different. I was afraid that I couldn't change as Allah SWT wanted me to even after endless prayers and repentance. I noticed a change in my solat. I no longer prayed with keikhlasan or kekhusyukkan. My prayers were filled with distractions of desperate begging for His divine assistance. There was no kesyukuran or niat in my prayers except those of wanting to change. I began to hate myself, believing that I was sin incarnate. Then it hit me, you can only repent when you have sinned, right? And to sin, it takes active participation, right? i mean, one can't be born with a sin, God does not do that and the Quran can back me up on this one. So how do I repent for something i've not done? Something that's been there since childbirth. I can't change and even after asking for help, i can't and for a most obvious reason. Because God did not want me to. If He won't change it, then it's because He wants me to embrace it. After my revelation, my prayers were ikhlas and khusyuk, my doa filled with gratitude, and i'm always eager to earn my pahala. Isn't this how God should be worshipped? I'm proud to say that today, I'm more of a Muslim than i was before my revelation.
See, if your challenge was to resist temptation, then mine would be to accept the things i cannot
change. That is His lesson for me. You were in no position to determine what my challenge was. It is my jihad and I've overcome it. Last i checked, it was Muhammad SAW who was the messenger of God. If God communicates with one of his followers, it is only between Him and the umat. He doesn't convey His lessons through another fellow muslim. So in a way, you dismissed my jihad as an indulgence. That was wrong. And while we're on that topic, you also said that my faith in Islam is futile. That was also wrong. For only Allah SWT knows of my deeds and sins, He keeps track
of my pahala, not you. I'm a Homosexual but I am also a Muslim, only He can say if my deeds were
invalid. I don't know if some are but i doubt that any of them are invalid because of me being
gay.
If me justifying my actions are offensive to you, then I'm sorry. But there will always be others
like me who cannot change. And i know you're not trying to convince anyone, but you can't change them. 21 years old is still young. You've much to learn. Perhaps its time you accepted the things you cannot change.
Netiquette:
1. Respect the Bloggers Blog. U don like it then leave.
2. The Blog does not equal the Blogger. Never assume that the Blogger always tells the Truth or is a reflection of his/her true persona.
3. hah sambung sendiri...
Masing-masing lah Aqmal. You have your own way thinking and I have mine. Imposing things like: "Perhaps its time you accepted the things you cannot change" shows how you don't accept the fact that I overcame my problem.
Cis...
That's a personality disoder commonly known as narcissism. There's nothing gay-related about it at all (to me lah). But if you feel that it fuels your gay fantasies, by all means, keep reading!
haha
betol lah cakap Ritz. I think I have to conclude this entry with a simple:
Enough Said!
Dear brothers of the Islamic brotherhood,
Afiq has chosen his way, so do Aqmal, Aput and the rest
As long as one’s action doesn’t cause any harms to others /public we should respect his choice as individual’s preference.
But, that doesn’t mean we can’t discuss the matter to hear one’s opinion towards another.
‘Muzakarah’ is good as long as is it done with in an ambiance of respect.
Bottom line is everyone is given a choice to choose thus they are suppose to be accountable for their chosen path.
But one thing for sure, we cant change the words of God and the words of God are conveyed via the Holy Quran. And inside it is clearly stated what is ‘dosa’ and what is ‘pahala’.
Pandai-pandailah adik adik sekalian menjaga diri.
May Allah the Almighty bless all of us with His forgiveness and His mercy.
~Danny
Spread the words of God with LOVE not with hatred…… ":)
this is a good blog. i've not encountered anything this scintilating in the blogosphere in a long time. i must thank afiq for bringing such topics to mind and i've learned some stuff from your entries and responses. And i like the opinions brought to the table by the other readers as well.
very interesting discussion i must say. keep it up afiq and u guys!
Alla never sets an obstacle for His servant the he cannot overcome...
For every disease there is a cure.
but some just don't want to find it.
ok? There's haditha and Quranic verses for the above. jap eh....
alamak!! why do i have such clumsy hands that always makes spelling errors?? garrhh
AllaH never sets an obstacle for His servant the he cannot overcome...
For every disease there is a cure.
but some just don't want to find it.
ok? There's hadith and Quranic verses for the above. jap eh....
I heard of the ayat before. Every disease has a cure. Correct. But as it seems, the gay community will not accept that being gay is a 'desease'.
Why?
Globalization. They seem to trust western celebrities more than God.
I don't think it's globalization, and neither do I believe it's a disease, or a psychiatric affliction.
When the Koran states that every disease has a cure, the context of the ayat itself is huge.
And if we were to obey the Koran as a whole, other social ills would also have to be dealt with in equivalence to it's recommendation of a cure, should it not?
So let's cane every single dating Muslim couple who goes out in public, let's stone all the adulterers and adulteresses.
And can you imagine the number of people missing their right limbs for stealing more than RM70?
And the Koran does not speak of a cure for homosexuality. Neither does the hadith Bukhary nor hadith Muslim.
In both, Muhammad condemns those who sleep in the same bed with a person of the same sex, and warns us not to show our aurat to the same sex.
But that's about it.
There's not exactly a hadith accepted in Malaysian Islamic jurisdiction that states we have to kill them or beat them up, or put them in a lockup.
Alah, duduk diam-diam sudah.. Tak payah tarik perhatian orang. Being gay doesnt mean u deserve insults.. Apala korang..
hej! interesting discussion however do not condemn others who are different than you, try to understand and respect each other, there's nobody superior...make peace to everyone...
Congratulations on a wonderful blog. I've just come across it and it's given several happy hours reading. Some of the photos are marvellous too.
You mention "the 72 hatemails I received last week" but omit to mention what was hateful about them. Are they of the form "you filthy homosexual", or "you're gay, get used to it dude"? I suspect the latter, but either way it's not nice.
If so, you might perhaps be wise to take a little more notice, cut the authors a little more slack even if they don't coincide with your clearly-expressed views, and of course not been abusive. Many of us have been exactly where you seem to be, at the same age, and later found just how destructive to the whole soul, personality and being that has been.
It's not until you break out of that mould that you realise just how much it has affected your whole life, your whole personality, and in particular distorted your relationships with others - from nearest and dearest to the humble shop assistant. Whole areas you thought were completely disconnected, but turn out not to be.
That revelation can bring out a certain evangelistic streak, that has nothing whatsoever to do with "believ[ing] in anything that rationalizes your homosexual behaviour" - once that stage is reached no rationalising is necessary. More to do with the pain of seeing another go down the same destructive road and desperate to divert them from that.
Whatever, peace my friend and enjoy life to the full.
yess.
afiq. congratulations on your very mature thoughts and blog (not just this post). it's refreshing to see that you and some others here can distinguish between the state of BEING gay (not a sin), and acting out on it (sinful according to MY personal and Islamic beliefs). Been thru it, I dont approve it, and like you, have struggled heartwrenchingly hard to fight it to the point of praying for death (it's not happened, yet). But as I grow older, i've come to accept myself as MYSELF, no labels attached. I accept ini ujian dari Allah. I take comfort in the belief that I haven't sinned if I have NOT ACTED IT OUT. I pray for a good happy life for us all. amin. Good luck to you all.
Dude, men's aurah is from the waist to the knee. Just so you know.
It's difficult to make others understand why homosexuality isn't a good thing. They assume that even if they are pious -- as in they pray times a day, fast in Ramadan and perform their hajj -- that they are being faithful to God. It takes more than that, and the "more" part is fighting off the temptations the world presents.
It's a matter of choice in the end, really.
gay semua ni megundang murka Allah...so yang fight utk gay semua nie ...apa yg anda fight sebenarnya? untuk dapat murka Allah? takanlah Allah turun bala begitu sekali pada kaum nabi luth kalau bende tu tak berdosa...........utk mereka yang ada dugaan tu..mmg dugaan manusia berbeza...bukan mudah utk yang mudah tergoda dengan laki, dan bukan bukan juga mudah bagi yang mudah tergoda ngan aweks....Balik balik iman kita bros...Iman,,,buktikan betapa kita sgykan Allah..melebihi segala,melebihi kehendak,melebihi perasaan,
i nak comment pasal being gay, rakan2 sekalian perasaan dan kehendak ini akan sentiasa terpesong bila nafsu mengatasi iman. sembahyang, puasa, zakat dan belajar agama, itu semua pasti dapat membentuk peribadi mulia. jika masih .... bererti masih ade yg tidak di buat secara sempurna. oleh itu ikutilah kuliah2 agama. dunia semakin hampir dgn kiamat. nak promot majalah SOLUSI baik untuk kita semua
Baiklah, tuan haji.
I have the same opinion with most of your points, but a few need to be discussed further, I will hold a small conversation with my buddies and perhaps I will ask you some advice shortly.
- Henry
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